1,041 segments
I haven't seen you in a while.
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How long did it take you to get here?
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It was quite a trip, but I enjoyed the scenery.
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What have you been doing these days?
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Just working around the house.
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As far as UFOs are concerned, as little as possible.
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Good afternoon, gentlemen.
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Can I offer you guys some coffee, tea, water?
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Oh, absolutely coffee.
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I have the tea, sugar only.
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We have a chocolate pie and an apricot pie.
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I can come back later.
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Yeah, you want to be so bad?
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Hey, I always wanted to ask you something.
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The, um, yeah, the human-like beings that you saw.
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What made you so sure that they weren't human?
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Well, the, um, sort of rigid, uh, pre-planned, uh, movements, the controlled movements.
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Oh, so they didn't, they didn't move smoothly like that.
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Well, they moved like, like they should.
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But, um, um, I'm in a panic, screaming, yelling, and everything.
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And they're just maintaining.
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They're cool, calm, and collected, and, uh, just on task.
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But, but physically they're, I mean.
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They just seem like, uh.
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I think that was the intention.
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Maybe to make you more comfortable.
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Something to make me cooperate, yeah.
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Yeah, it was, I had recently looked at, uh, Fire in the Sky, the movie.
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And, um, in fact, I was trying to show my wife, Joy, your story.
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And, holy cow, there is so much contradicting information.
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About, about everything.
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Every single thing you look at tells a different story, and they're all wrong.
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Yeah, well, I understand that, you know, uh, Hollywood dramatizations are not documentaries.
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But I think they went a little too far afield.
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Yeah, they didn't put the part aboard the craft in the copy of the script that they gave me.
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So, I mean, just being clear.
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They knew I wasn't going to like that.
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The whole thing with you and the membrane and the dead bodies and them drilling in your eye, none of that.
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They just fabricated all that.
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And you didn't know about that ahead of time.
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That's, that's unbelievable.
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Well, there's a few things that could be classified as a story device.
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The membrane over the actor's face, he's struggling to breathe, struggling to scream through it.
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Um, I was, in my actual experience, uh, feeling suffocated and, uh, you know, uh, how do you express that if you don't have the actor say something like, I can't breathe?
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Yeah, I think you're being generous.
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Show it rather than tell it, but yeah.
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You said it was a real, like a super humid environment where it was hard to breathe and.
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Yeah, it was, it, it served the purpose of, uh, generating fear and that's as, probably as close as you can get for what they did there.
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What, what was interesting to me is the, the size of the craft that you were in, or if it was a craft or a base or, or whatever.
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Because when you exited, when you got away and now I may, I may have the story wrong myself.
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When you walked out of the craft being led by this other being, you were in some giant hangar with other crafts, right?
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Uh, even the craft we were coming out of seemed bigger than the way I remembered it in, in, when I approached it.
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Did you think it was the same craft?
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It was the same shape.
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But, you know, uh, it's also the same shape as what you're reporting.
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Uh, uh, uh, I've always been struck by reports, uh, descriptions of your craft, um, resemble what we saw more than any other report that I've seen, you know?
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That's really interesting.
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I, I rarely comment on other events or other people's reports, but that's one that I've always, uh, found interesting and didn't mind saying before.
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What caught my attention, I think one of the times you were describing the craft, it had archways in it.
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Is that, that correct?
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You saw some archways or?
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Well, the doorways and connecting, um, surfaces between wall and ceiling and that sort of stuff weren't corners.
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They, you know, were rounded.
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But the, the craft itself, was it, the, the skin, was it made of archways?
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Was it like a, looked like a support system or?
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Well, I was, uh, it looked very angular from, uh, outside from a distance and my, uh, I was preoccupied with the feeling of threat.
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Yeah, I'm, I'm sure you didn't have time really to.
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Study the architecture.
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Yeah, I thought they might have been similar in that way.
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But that, um, did you have any kind of feeling of where that craft might be, what this big thing was?
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Did it feel like it was, you know, you were on a base?
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I couldn't see outside.
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The, the light that was coming through the surface of the, uh, larger enclosure.
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Now, whether that was a building somewhere, maybe on Earth or somewhere else, or part of a larger craft, I don't know.
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I couldn't see outside, but it, it was a very natural colored light, kind of like sunlight.
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It seemed, it seemed natural, not artificial, like it was.
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Not extremely bright, but just, uh, like natural light.
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But it was large enough to hold, what was it, two or three crafts in there with more?
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Again, I was preoccupied with, where are you taking me?
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You know, I felt like I was suffocating, like I was dying.
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I was injured and I was begging, pleading for explanations from this person that I think was
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probably selected for the purpose of reassuring me and getting my cooperation.
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I guess that kind of worked to some degree.
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But, um, he never uttered a word?
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You never heard anything?
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No, he didn't respond.
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Uh, even, you know, when I started to demand more of a response from him.
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That's really interesting.
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The, uh, the time from when, well, I have a lot of questions that are kind of jumbled
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Well, I'm, I'm, I'm here.
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Yeah, I've, I've heard so many theories about it, but when you guys, you know, all got out
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of the truck to see the craft, um, everybody else got back and you stayed there?
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No, actually, I got out of the truck and none of the rest of them did.
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So you just went out to investigate, everybody else stayed behind.
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And that kind of led to some, uh, strange reactions.
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Uh, Steve, uh, he, he was in the truck and he didn't get out.
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And his girlfriends would say, Steve, how come you didn't get out of the truck?
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And he, he said, it's because I had stronger resistance to mind control.
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He's claiming that mind control made, uh, us get out of the truck, but he resisted.
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I said, Steve, the mind control was to make you stay in the truck.
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I was the one that was resisting it.
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Just kidding, you know, but, uh, uh, it wasn't mind control, but he was trying to act like he
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had to come up with an excuse for why he didn't jump out too.
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He needed to be a tough guy.
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Well, I wished I had done it like him and stayed in the truck.
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Um, so you got behind a tree, a tree stump or something to that effect to kind of hide.
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And one of the theories I heard was, um, the craft was about to take off.
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You, I think you said you heard a hum like it was powering up.
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The sound was always, already there.
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And then I think somebody was calling back in the truck and you stood up and then you got
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hit by, there was a beam, a bolt or something from there and you were, and you went flying.
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And you go like 20 feet high or something like that.
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They, they were all screaming, uh, swearing at me to get in the truck, uh, you know, calling
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me crazy and, uh, which was foolish.
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I can't argue with that.
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Well, we all do crazy stuff at times, but getting thrown, them witnessing that, the getting
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hit by the bolt flying in the sky, they assumed by the time you hit the ground, you were dead,
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which is why they took off.
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They said, he's dead.
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Let's, let's get out of here.
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That's what they tell me.
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You were, you were offline for it, so to speak.
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So, uh, the theory that I heard was, you know, from the alien's point of view, the craft
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was just taking off, you stood up, it just accidentally discharged on you and killed you.
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And this, the reason they brought you on was more like an, an, an ambulance move was just
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to bring you back and reanimate you.
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Have you, you've heard that?
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An accident occurred because I made a foolish move, you know, standing up, close the distance
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between me and it and, uh, this discharge happened.
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I, I could feel a strange charge in the air before I even got, you know, that close.
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Oh, that's interesting.
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So, kind of support.
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But I didn't know, I didn't know whether it was from all these weird sounds it was making
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or, you know, something's, some energy emanating from the craft itself.
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But when I stood up, that was when my head, uh, was the closest to the surface of it.
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And then the, the blast of energy.
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Now, I didn't see the energy, you know.
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You just stood up and bam, the lights on up.
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The crew describes it in different ways.
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Uh, one guy described it as a foot wide beam, like a laser beam.
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Another said it looked like a long blue flame.
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So, uh, it, it was basically different words used to describe the same, uh, visual.
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How, how far was your head from the craft, the edge of the craft at that time, your, your
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Oh, it was only like, you know, five feet, less than 10 feet.
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I thought it was like 50 or 60 feet away.
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So, no, no, a lot closer than that.
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So, you were right, right alongside the craft.
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Um, the, the increase in sound and the motion scared me.
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And when I jumped for cover, cover happened to be closer to it.
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So, I, I got down behind the log there.
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And the screams to get out of there, get back in the truck, um, got louder.
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And, uh, I didn't need to be told.
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I was, uh, sort of torn between the fear of, uh.
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Being discovered, maybe?
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Uh, coming out from under, uh, cover or, uh.
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But, I was going to run back to the truck and bam.
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Just felt this electric shock, stunning force go through my body.
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If you've ever been hit, uh, playing football or something, you didn't see it coming.
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That stunning sort of, it's a feeling of being stunned, you know?
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And, uh, of course, I know what electric shock feels like, too.
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If you're enjoying your time at the Flying Saucer Diner, take it with you from hats to teas.
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Mugs to this high-quality canvas apron.
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So, no idea the time, once you were out, you were out.
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And the next thing you knew, you woke up inside.
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You know, one of my wonders is, uh, about five days is such a long time to be gone.
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You know, where did the time occur?
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Did it, did they bring you right back into the craft then?
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Was I partially revived immediately?
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And then I woke up much later or somewhere in the middle of the five days?
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Was, was that waking up on board the craft, uh, almost, uh, immediately after I was taken aboard?
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And what, what's done over five days?
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There's no, you, you have no physical effects.
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I mean, after all these years or.
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Well, there was one artifact.
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Didn't know you had that done.
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World famous, uh, brain trauma center.
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Barrow's neurological.
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It's where Muhammad Ali went when he, uh, developed problems.
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I still have the chart, uh, the printout.
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Um, because there was such hysteria and, and just, you know, massive attention, um, they put me in to Barrows under unassumed name.
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To avoid media attention, which was fortunate because it sort of served as a double blind on the readings that they were going to get on the brainwave scan.
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That's a good point.
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So they found this unusual pattern.
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The, the, um, technician described and, um, I still have the report, but it's, um, an alternating wave, um, moving from front to back, something along that line.
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And it's really curious.
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I, I'd, I'd love to see a comparison between that and maybe someone who's had other kinds of head trauma or electric shock.
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Maybe somebody who's been hit by lightning.
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But I had a subsequent, um, um, brainwave scan that, uh, where that was no longer there.
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So it may have been some residual effect of the healing that, uh, I was provided.
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When did you have, I mean, from the time of the incident to the brainwave scan, was that?
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All this stuff was almost immediately, you know, the.
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Oh, it wasn't months later.
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The doctors, um, that, um, were in on this, you know, were, uh, there the next day.
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And Dr. Harder, uh, who performed the, uh, regressive hypnosis.
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I was so lucky that it was him that did it because he did it in a style, a technique to where I was put under as a, an observer to what was happening to me rather than the experiencer.
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And, uh, the reason I'm, uh, in hindsight grateful for that is because one of the crew members went through hypnosis where he was directed to relive it.
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And it was a hugely traumatic for him.
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I mean, the description of his, uh, body, uh, movements and, um.
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The reaction was, it was probably pretty, pretty horrible for him to re-experience it.
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It was not necessary to, uh, get at the memory of what happened.
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Did you find anything out through hypnosis that you, you didn't, I mean, sometimes it reveals some things here and there.
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It served a purpose in the sense that what I recalled.
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I, I hadn't, I was unable to communicate.
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I hadn't even told my brother what had happened.
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I couldn't, I was just so extremely traumatized.
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So it removed that to where I could actually talk about it without, um, secondary negative effect, you know.
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That, that really aided in my recovery a lot.
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Uh, Dr. Harder was, uh, amazingly calming in the, in his technique.
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I got rid of a lot of that fear that was, I was living with every day.
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There's sugar there as well, if you need.
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Well, that's, that's good to hear.
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That something helps because that's a monumental trauma.
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But it didn't, it didn't reveal anything that you had forgotten or didn't, couldn't pull out of your memory.
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So everything was pretty much, while you were conscious.
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You remember everything pretty clearly.
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Uh, in a, uh, sort of cryptic way, you know, I had to, um, conclude certain things based on events.
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You know, this must be the, the case.
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But I do try to distinguish between what I'm directly experiencing, perceiving, and what I figure probably explains what I experienced.
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Are you still in contact with any other guys?
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I, I tried to stay in contact with all of them and right, they, um.
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You said a few of them have died, right?
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And, uh, you know, I had contacted Dwayne Smith and I said, hey, I'd like you to come out and speak with me.
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Uh, you know, I said, but I'm looking really terrible.
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I'm having my teeth redone.
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So let's, after I get my teeth redone, I'll, I'll come out and speak with you.
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And then he passed away right after that.
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Oh, sorry to hear that.
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I, I did tape the conversation though.
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And here this many years later, you know, his memory was fresh and, uh, as, you know, in sync with whatever the rest of us.
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Were there any hard feelings between you and any of the other boys?
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I think some, you know, it developed over time.
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At first, Mike would come out and speak with me or, or, and Steve, but then Steve started to get sort of resentful about it.
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He was asked, uh, by one interviewer, uh, uh, was there anything you would change about the experience if you could?
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And he said, yeah, crank up the voltage.
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Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
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Like he's wishing it had killed me out of state debt or something.
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It wasn't funny to me, but.
[0:22:48 - 0:22:49] ▶
So he quit, uh, coming out with us when, when the girls would say, how come you didn't get out of the truck?
[0:22:50 - 0:22:57] ▶
And then he developed, he, he tried to come up with alternate explanations.
[0:22:57 - 0:23:02] ▶
You know, I mean, at first, you know, every time he got a new girlfriend.
[0:23:04 - 0:23:08] ▶
He'd take a new polygraph test and prove it all over again.
[0:23:10 - 0:23:13] ▶
And then he started trying to say, well, it happened just the way we described it, but it was really the government and not aliens.
[0:23:14 - 0:23:23] ▶
Made it easier to cope with, I think.
[0:23:23 - 0:23:25] ▶
That was a sort of a.
[0:23:25 - 0:23:26] ▶
Well, yeah, it's more of a down to earth explanation.
[0:23:27 - 0:23:29] ▶
A way that he doesn't have to be afraid at night kind of a thing.
[0:23:29 - 0:23:33] ▶
And, and one other thing that developed with Steve, I felt sorry for him, was that, uh, I was told by the other crewman that he was one of the ones who was crying when, when the lawman came.
[0:23:33 - 0:23:48] ▶
Well, that was fine with Steve at first.
[0:23:48 - 0:23:52] ▶
Oh, and he doesn't want that spread around.
[0:23:52 - 0:23:54] ▶
And then his cousin, I think his uncle, one of the relatives started teasing him about being a big crybaby.
[0:23:55 - 0:24:00] ▶
And so he got real angry about, no, I wasn't crying.
[0:24:00 - 0:24:05] ▶
I was strong the whole time.
[0:24:07 - 0:24:09] ▶
And so that was his big beef.
[0:24:09 - 0:24:11] ▶
He, he demanded that I have the book reprinted to take that out.
[0:24:12 - 0:24:15] ▶
I said, Steve, I wasn't there.
[0:24:17 - 0:24:19] ▶
I was just going by what the others told me.
[0:24:19 - 0:24:22] ▶
He's not ashamed of that.
[0:24:25 - 0:24:26] ▶
That's, that's very cry worthy.
[0:24:28 - 0:24:29] ▶
You know, I don't know how many of the others, but.
[0:24:33 - 0:24:35] ▶
He's, he was strong.
[0:24:40 - 0:24:41] ▶
He just doesn't know it.
[0:24:41 - 0:24:42] ▶
I asked that because sometimes, you know, when you, especially once you start getting a lot of attention, obviously you got the most attention of any of them.
[0:24:42 - 0:25:03] ▶
The guys there, you know, hard feelings develop.
[0:25:03 - 0:25:07] ▶
I had that in friends and acquaintances that when, you know, documentaries are being made about me.
[0:25:07 - 0:25:15] ▶
Hey, you didn't include me.
[0:25:15 - 0:25:16] ▶
And, you know, what the hell?
[0:25:17 - 0:25:19] ▶
And, well, you really weren't part of it.
[0:25:19 - 0:25:21] ▶
Yeah, but I knew you back then.
[0:25:21 - 0:25:22] ▶
And, you know, and then that hard feelings started.
[0:25:22 - 0:25:25] ▶
When, when Steve said crank up the voltage and they quit coming out with me, there was jealousy.
[0:25:27 - 0:25:33] ▶
I can understand being a part of something so incredible.
[0:25:34 - 0:25:37] ▶
And then media or curious people have questions and they rush right past the witnesses to the main guy.
[0:25:38 - 0:25:47] ▶
And I, I can't help it.
[0:25:48 - 0:25:50] ▶
So a lot of jealousy developed with, at least Steve and Mike.
[0:25:54 - 0:25:59] ▶
And then, well, then, you know, in my case, then you start getting the detractors that start looking for those people.
[0:25:59 - 0:26:06] ▶
Anybody that was close to you that has any negative thoughts and they, you know, hey, can you give us some dirt on them?
[0:26:06 - 0:26:13] ▶
Or just trying to create a narrative that contradicts you.
[0:26:13 - 0:26:18] ▶
It makes them easier to manipulate.
[0:26:21 - 0:26:23] ▶
And some of that happened, you know, one detractor, uh, tracked Steve down.
[0:26:23 - 0:26:31] ▶
He, he, he, uh, um, had changed to his real name.
[0:26:31 - 0:26:39] ▶
Detractor took him out to dinner and tried to talk him into taking a $10,000 bribe to say it was all made up.
[0:26:40 - 0:26:48] ▶
Well, Steve got a free dinner, but he didn't get $10,000.
[0:26:48 - 0:26:53] ▶
And, uh, that sort of pressure was something that was used on Mike too.
[0:26:55 - 0:27:02] ▶
Did Steve tell you that right after it happened?
[0:27:05 - 0:27:08] ▶
Other researchers also, you know, interviewed him and asked about things like that.
[0:27:10 - 0:27:15] ▶
But, um, um, that's to be expected.
[0:27:15 - 0:27:20] ▶
But you would think, man, you're a part of something like this.
[0:27:20 - 0:27:24] ▶
Mess it up by trying to do something to attack somebody.
[0:27:25 - 0:27:30] ▶
Just because you're not the middle of the story.
[0:27:30 - 0:27:32] ▶
You know, I wish I wasn't.
[0:27:34 - 0:27:35] ▶
Look, the movie, uh, was about the crew boss.
[0:27:36 - 0:27:40] ▶
I wasn't there for most of the movie, so my, my, the actor who played me had a minor role.
[0:27:40 - 0:27:47] ▶
That's a good point.
[0:27:48 - 0:27:49] ▶
And some of the other, uh, um, people on the crew had a lot more worldwide attention than me.
[0:27:50 - 0:27:58] ▶
I was just the guy it happened to.
[0:27:59 - 0:28:01] ▶
A lot of time's gone by.
[0:28:11 - 0:28:12] ▶
Yeah, I mean, holy cow, that's a long time ago.
[0:28:19 - 0:28:22] ▶
Does this ever enter your mind anymore, or is it just people asking you that kind of brings it back?
[0:28:22 - 0:28:29] ▶
Yeah, well, I'm constantly asked about it, so, uh, as much as I try to forget it, I get reminded a lot.
[0:28:29 - 0:28:37] ▶
Are you recognized when you go out?
[0:28:37 - 0:28:40] ▶
Are you wondering if that's why I grew my beard back again?
[0:28:42 - 0:28:45] ▶
But, you know, over time, um, the debunkers have sort of crumbled away, being self-discredited, and, uh, more positive evidence comes up.
[0:28:51 - 0:29:07] ▶
You know, scientific investigation at the site and those sorts of things.
[0:29:07 - 0:29:10] ▶
But, uh, I guess debunkers are, uh, always a part of it.
[0:29:11 - 0:29:16] ▶
I think they're just trying to, like, anytime there's something of notoriety happening, you always have people that are just, will grab onto the coattails so they can get dragged along with it.
[0:29:17 - 0:29:28] ▶
And if something's getting a lot of attention, they go, oh, no, I know this, the true story.
[0:29:28 - 0:29:32] ▶
This is a bunch of nonsense.
[0:29:32 - 0:29:33] ▶
Well, as support for my case grew over time, um, investigators and media started wanting me to comment on other cases.
[0:29:33 - 0:29:48] ▶
And I had my hands full of my own case.
[0:29:50 - 0:29:54] ▶
And I knew that if I gave into that, if I started commenting, okay, which cases are the good ones, which ones are the, you know, it would never end.
[0:29:54 - 0:30:04] ▶
I would be put in the position of passing judgment on people.
[0:30:04 - 0:30:09] ▶
I said, that's not right.
[0:30:09 - 0:30:10] ▶
What I, what I objected to so much in my attackers was that they hadn't done the research.
[0:30:11 - 0:30:19] ▶
If you can't research the case thoroughly, you're not entitled to make opinions.
[0:30:19 - 0:30:24] ▶
However, you know, in your case, I, I sort of broke that rule.
[0:30:25 - 0:30:29] ▶
You know, people who expect, uh, express the negative things.
[0:30:29 - 0:30:34] ▶
I can't, uh, break my rule of, uh, supporting other cases.
[0:30:34 - 0:30:41] ▶
I did say, but the description of the craft that Bob Lazar saw.
[0:30:41 - 0:30:48] ▶
Is the closest to what we saw than any other case I've ever heard of.
[0:30:49 - 0:30:55] ▶
And, uh, and then there were other silly arguments I had to shoot down because they were just so silly.
[0:30:56 - 0:31:03] ▶
Well, Bob can't be telling the truth because I checked the phone book at, uh, area 51 and he's not in the phone book.
[0:31:03 - 0:31:12] ▶
And I said, come on, it's secret.
[0:31:12 - 0:31:15] ▶
They don't put the number in the, what's in the Bob Lazar secret department.
[0:31:16 - 0:31:19] ▶
You know, that was the silliest attack.
[0:31:20 - 0:31:22] ▶
One of the silliest.
[0:31:23 - 0:31:24] ▶
But, you know, I met some people say they used to go out and, uh, party with you guys in the desert, uh, before you ever came out.
[0:31:24 - 0:31:33] ▶
And, uh, they said, Bob was telling us that story way back then before anybody knew anything.
[0:31:33 - 0:31:40] ▶
So I, I consider that something that really supported your credibility.
[0:31:40 - 0:31:45] ▶
It's, uh, I don't know.
[0:31:47 - 0:31:52] ▶
Well, they knew you to be employed at area 51.
[0:31:54 - 0:31:59] ▶
I have had, um, I was fortunate enough to have George Knapp, that investigative reporter from Las Vegas,
[0:32:03 - 0:32:14] ▶
who was so interested in the story.
[0:32:14 - 0:32:16] ▶
Um, he was able to verify, you know, some things here and there.
[0:32:16 - 0:32:21] ▶
I mean, he found my phone number in the Los Alamos phone book at the lab.
[0:32:21 - 0:32:26] ▶
And, um, I was able to take him there and show him around and.
[0:32:26 - 0:32:31] ▶
But it wasn't under Bob Lazar's secret project.
[0:32:31 - 0:32:34] ▶
But, um, yeah, I don't know.
[0:32:37 - 0:32:42] ▶
I guess I didn't want to get off on a whole weird tangent, but, um,
[0:32:42 - 0:32:47] ▶
It's a, it, a lot goes through your mind when you start reliving all that stuff.
[0:32:49 - 0:32:55] ▶
I'm guessing you're kind of like I am.
[0:32:57 - 0:33:02] ▶
I, I don't really have any interest in, in UFOs or stories or things.
[0:33:02 - 0:33:07] ▶
I don't, I don't follow them.
[0:33:08 - 0:33:09] ▶
Whether you, uh, whether you like it or not, people tell you stuff.
[0:33:11 - 0:33:14] ▶
So you begin to hear, oh, I've, I've heard that name.
[0:33:14 - 0:33:17] ▶
I've heard about that incident.
[0:33:17 - 0:33:18] ▶
And you know, that, that kind of thing.
[0:33:18 - 0:33:20] ▶
But, um, I was never really interested in the topic.
[0:33:21 - 0:33:26] ▶
I mean, before that, I never even believed in it.
[0:33:26 - 0:33:28] ▶
I thought, you know, there were just either experimental government craft or something like that.
[0:33:28 - 0:33:33] ▶
But, um, you know, being involved in the project certainly changed my mind.
[0:33:33 - 0:33:39] ▶
Well, the reality of it is it's not like some bizarre side story to life.
[0:33:39 - 0:33:47] ▶
It's just what is, you know, I mean, you know, it is as, uh, traumatic, uh, and disrupting as it was to my life.
[0:33:47 - 0:33:56] ▶
Uh, there's nothing mystical or magical about it.
[0:33:56 - 0:33:59] ▶
You know, it's not, uh, anything to, um, go cultish about.
[0:33:59 - 0:34:06] ▶
It's just the way it is, you know, and it's people, uh, don't understand why my attitude towards them going from invading monsters, you know, the attitude they had to something a little more, well, a big picture, you know, you know, just in my lifetime.
[0:34:06 - 0:34:29] ▶
The increase in understanding.
[0:34:29 - 0:34:32] ▶
The size and the age of the universe.
[0:34:34 - 0:34:36] ▶
You know, what's the name of that new, uh, space telescope?
[0:34:37 - 0:34:40] ▶
The James Webb telescope.
[0:34:40 - 0:34:42] ▶
Yeah, James Webb is out there getting a clearer view of things.
[0:34:42 - 0:34:47] ▶
The story is they pointed it at the emptiest spot in the sky and could see hundreds of galaxies, not just stars, entire galaxies.
[0:34:47 - 0:35:00] ▶
You know, the Milky Way is one galaxy, the one we live in.
[0:35:00 - 0:35:04] ▶
And yet, the size and scope of the universe was, uh, expanded so much by the James Webb telescope because it's far bigger.
[0:35:04 - 0:35:17] ▶
And it's not just everything's moving away from us, which I think was an artifact of, um, the, um, what they thought they were seeing.
[0:35:17 - 0:35:31] ▶
What makes you think that?
[0:35:33 - 0:35:34] ▶
Because that implied that there was a center to the universe and that, you know, it had edges.
[0:35:34 - 0:35:42] ▶
And now they're gonna have to face the fact that it's infinite.
[0:35:42 - 0:35:47] ▶
I think it's much bigger than they're even thinking now.
[0:35:47 - 0:35:52] ▶
I mean, you know, 50 years ago, you know, if you looked on a map of the known universe, it was about that.
[0:35:52 - 0:36:00] ▶
James Webb made it bigger.
[0:36:00 - 0:36:02] ▶
And I think it's even larger than that.
[0:36:02 - 0:36:04] ▶
But like they said, from assuming measurements are accurate, everything's not moving away from a central point.
[0:36:05 - 0:36:12] ▶
Everything's moving away from everything else.
[0:36:12 - 0:36:15] ▶
And the only situation where that occurs is if you take a balloon, make a bunch of dots on it, and then blow it up, everything moves away from everything else.
[0:36:15 - 0:36:28] ▶
So it's almost like we're on the skin of something.
[0:36:28 - 0:36:32] ▶
I mean, that's, at least that's the way it exists in my mind to deal with it.
[0:36:33 - 0:36:38] ▶
It could be possible that that is an artifact of the amount of size and distance that's involved here that gives the illusion that that's the case.
[0:36:38 - 0:36:55] ▶
It could very well be a big illusion, too.
[0:36:57 - 0:37:01] ▶
What if our measurements, the redshift and, you know, what we're using to gauge distances, what if that's not accurate?
[0:37:01 - 0:37:08] ▶
And it kind of throws off everything that we're…
[0:37:08 - 0:37:11] ▶
Well, maybe you could explain this to me.
[0:37:12 - 0:37:14] ▶
Maybe I'm not bright enough.
[0:37:14 - 0:37:17] ▶
But say there's a beam of light going right here between us.
[0:37:17 - 0:37:22] ▶
And then, you know, the beam of light is…
[0:37:22 - 0:37:23] ▶
They're saying it's 186,000 miles per second.
[0:37:23 - 0:37:27] ▶
And nothing in the universe can go faster.
[0:37:27 - 0:37:32] ▶
Now, if you were traveling along that beam at, say, half the speed of that beam and showing the light forward, what's going to happen?
[0:37:32 - 0:37:45] ▶
The beam that you're shining is obviously the speed of light plus the half speed that you're on.
[0:37:45 - 0:37:54] ▶
Yeah, but it doesn't work that way.
[0:37:54 - 0:37:56] ▶
And that's what they're saying.
[0:37:56 - 0:37:57] ▶
It makes no sense at all.
[0:37:58 - 0:37:59] ▶
But that's the way it is.
[0:37:59 - 0:38:00] ▶
Okay, if you say so.
[0:38:00 - 0:38:03] ▶
They call it relative.
[0:38:07 - 0:38:08] ▶
You know, if you're on a train and you want to calculate the speed of a bullet that you fire, you know, the speed of that bullet relative to the ground outside is the speed of the bullet plus the speed of the train.
[0:38:11 - 0:38:29] ▶
And you're saying, but with light, that's a special case.
[0:38:29 - 0:38:32] ▶
It's always the same speed no matter what.
[0:38:33 - 0:38:35] ▶
It's like an article of faith.
[0:38:38 - 0:38:40] ▶
Well, I mean, it kind of depends how you look at it.
[0:38:41 - 0:38:46] ▶
But the rules change when you get to maximums and minimums.
[0:38:47 - 0:38:50] ▶
You know, when you go really small and get into the quantum era, all of a sudden the rules don't apply.
[0:38:50 - 0:38:56] ▶
And it's a whole new set of physics.
[0:38:56 - 0:38:59] ▶
And look, we really don't know for sure exactly how anything works.
[0:39:00 - 0:39:06] ▶
I've, you know, there've been old theories that, you know, the light really isn't even moving, that it's just like a river and everything's already moving at that speed.
[0:39:06 - 0:39:19] ▶
And, I mean, it's difficult to completely prove what we think.
[0:39:19 - 0:39:29] ▶
There's a lot of theories.
[0:39:29 - 0:39:32] ▶
And there are a few hard proofs to back them up.
[0:39:32 - 0:39:35] ▶
So, to a degree, there's faith that is involved.
[0:39:35 - 0:39:40] ▶
Oh, there's, you know, the edges of physics.
[0:39:40 - 0:39:47] ▶
Get into some really…
[0:39:47 - 0:39:49] ▶
Can I get you guys another refill?
[0:39:49 - 0:39:50] ▶
Would you like some water as well?
[0:39:53 - 0:39:54] ▶
And I noticed, did you guys leave your briefcase down there under the table?
[0:39:57 - 0:40:03] ▶
Well, you know, you have to adjust and say, okay, there's really no such thing as a photon.
[0:40:04 - 0:40:15] ▶
I take it that's not yours?
[0:40:22 - 0:40:25] ▶
Well, it either is or it isn't.
[0:40:25 - 0:40:30] ▶
But see, that's what happens when you get into exotic physics.
[0:40:30 - 0:40:36] ▶
It's magical thinking.
[0:40:36 - 0:40:37] ▶
And the isms, the platitudes, are a product of allowing people to get comfortable with
[0:40:38 - 0:40:53] ▶
things that otherwise don't add up.
[0:40:53 - 0:40:56] ▶
Do you trust modern physics?
[0:40:56 - 0:40:58] ▶
Do you think there's a lot of holes in it?
[0:40:59 - 0:41:03] ▶
Well, the conclusions are hard and fast.
[0:41:03 - 0:41:06] ▶
If they could just add, as if…
[0:41:06 - 0:41:11] ▶
It's as if this beam of light is this and this speed is being registered in this way.
[0:41:11 - 0:41:18] ▶
But you can explain it however you want.
[0:41:18 - 0:41:21] ▶
Here's your one, sir.
[0:41:22 - 0:41:23] ▶
Things that are just contrary to common sense and basic logic…
[0:41:24 - 0:41:28] ▶
Yeah, it's hard to digest that stuff.
[0:41:28 - 0:41:30] ▶
…don't carry a lot of weight with me.
[0:41:30 - 0:41:34] ▶
I know that, you know, thousands of hardcore physicists would disagree with me.
[0:41:34 - 0:41:41] ▶
No, no, that's the way it is.
[0:41:41 - 0:41:43] ▶
Get on that beam of light, go three-fourths the speed of it, shine that beam of light,
[0:41:43 - 0:41:47] ▶
and the beam of light that you're shining isn't going the speed plus the speed.
[0:41:47 - 0:41:53] ▶
Well, the bottom line, no one has actually done it before, so there's no direct proof that
[0:41:57 - 0:42:05] ▶
So this briefcase that someone left here…
[0:42:10 - 0:42:20] ▶
I'm perfectly aware that all of these very knowledgeable and well-educated people will
[0:42:23 - 0:42:41] ▶
say, no, you got it wrong, you know?
[0:42:41 - 0:42:44] ▶
No matter where you are on that speed of light, on that beam of light, it's still going the
[0:42:44 - 0:42:49] ▶
Everything's relative except light, that's what they're telling me.
[0:42:52 - 0:42:57] ▶
That's an old jet-powered car I made.
[0:43:04 - 0:43:05] ▶
Oh, it was in Los Alamos, yeah.
[0:43:08 - 0:43:09] ▶
It's like a lot of stuff on me.
[0:43:09 - 0:43:10] ▶
What kind of gas miles you get?
[0:43:10 - 0:43:16] ▶
You get jokes like that.
[0:43:16 - 0:43:18] ▶
There's my W-2 from Department of Naval Intelligence.
[0:43:34 - 0:43:37] ▶
intelligence that's another thing that really although i don't follow ufo lore too much but
[0:43:37 - 0:43:45] ▶
more and more you hear about sightings and stuff that are either over the ocean over water
[0:43:46 - 0:43:52] ▶
underwater coming out of the water yeah then you know i was paid and then apparently the navy was
[0:43:52 - 0:43:58] ▶
the ones you know running the show so i just i i wonder if they were the first ones to
[0:43:58 - 0:44:05] ▶
run into the craft and they were just left in control of it because if anything you thought
[0:44:05 - 0:44:13] ▶
it would be the uh air force wow there's proof i didn't need proof i know you really worked there
[0:44:13 - 0:44:19] ▶
and there's uh oh these are the archways i was talking about and that you know okay yeah i may
[0:44:20 - 0:44:26] ▶
have had that i just it was not studying it did it did the craft glow or like yeah it was glowy
[0:44:26 - 0:44:35] ▶
what do you remember the color uh it was a kind of a soft towards the yellow end of the spectrum okay
[0:44:35 - 0:44:43] ▶
you seem to hear that a lot
[0:44:44 - 0:44:45] ▶
oh that's a drawing i made about the interesting components
[0:44:52 - 0:44:57] ▶
that's a sketch from a
[0:44:57 - 0:45:04] ▶
i had a friend named john lear that uh
[0:45:13 - 0:45:16] ▶
he was a a good guy but um he used to have some really weird beliefs he believed people lived in the sun
[0:45:18 - 0:45:24] ▶
and you know all kinds of crazy things and uh i drew that picture for him and uh so that's well he had a
[0:45:24 - 0:45:33] ▶
very famous father yeah a brilliant brilliant guy and um i mean what he invented the autopilot the eight
[0:45:33 - 0:45:42] ▶
track tape track tape a bunch of stuff later yeah i met john later he was he did come with us a couple times
[0:45:42 - 0:45:51] ▶
out to visit this uh this is what made me believe at least part of the billy meyer story because that
[0:45:52 - 0:46:00] ▶
looks so much like the craft yeah and does it kind of look familiar to you i mean yeah it looks so much like it um
[0:46:00 - 0:46:11] ▶
but uh you know i think my case and even your case uh contributed to the idea that uh ufos are all
[0:46:11 - 0:46:18] ▶
flying discs but no i mean some of them are circular yeah some of them are triangular yeah these days
[0:46:18 - 0:46:25] ▶
i i wonder if just time has gone on and just like car models things have changed or maybe the technology
[0:46:26 - 0:46:33] ▶
has changed or maybe maybe you're seeing visitors from somewhere else now that have their own yeah
[0:46:33 - 0:46:38] ▶
uh well i know people uh that i believe that saw them that were um they call it tic-tac shake but you
[0:46:38 - 0:46:49] ▶
know it's a sort of a capsule sort of a like a vitamin pill or something you know like a sphere would
[0:46:49 - 0:46:57] ▶
be if you stretched it out they call that tic-tac but i'm sure the candy manufacturers don't appreciate the
[0:46:57 - 0:47:04] ▶
analogy yeah they should they should ride the wave and make uh ufo packaging or something
[0:47:04 - 0:47:10] ▶
swap is there anything away for you uh make this hot okay sure and uh yeah there's a gentleman over
[0:47:10 - 0:47:18] ▶
there that said there was two folders in the briefcase we have just found number two wow
[0:47:18 - 0:47:22] ▶
oh this looks like you come on oh man there's travis's safe down to earth judgment this is all you
[0:47:22 - 0:47:36] ▶
yeah was that your car yeah nice car yeah it would go over 150 in the quarter mile it was really yeah it
[0:47:36 - 0:47:46] ▶
was incredible okay so that wasn't stock you did some uh no i had over 500 horsepower from the factory
[0:47:46 - 0:47:53] ▶
but it had enhancements on it beyond that yeah it looked like you were somewhat of a daredevil dirt bike
[0:47:53 - 0:48:03] ▶
you're into fighting too huh yeah i i i my first three bouts i won by knockout in the first round
[0:48:03 - 0:48:12] ▶
no kidding yeah and you know it was just a minor excursion into boxing i was mostly into uh the asian
[0:48:12 - 0:48:22] ▶
martial arts various styles at the time now i can really see you come out fighting when you're on that
[0:48:22 - 0:48:29] ▶
table and it's jumping off oh so this is you know the hangar or other ship
[0:48:29 - 0:48:41] ▶
yeah and now i'm wondering was this am i assuming the shape because i could only see it from this side
[0:48:42 - 0:48:49] ▶
if there was if it was more elongated i wouldn't know because i you know wasn't studying it i just
[0:48:49 - 0:48:57] ▶
looked over quickly as we left this large enclosure and this very smooth chrome
[0:48:57 - 0:49:05] ▶
uh thing reflecting everything around it so chrome so it was really polished metal yeah
[0:49:05 - 0:49:13] ▶
okay i didn't realize that was the configuration so you came out of the
[0:49:15 - 0:49:19] ▶
the craft here it seemed bigger at this point so it could have been a bigger craft i don't know
[0:49:21 - 0:49:26] ▶
uh and then went into yet another um room where they rendered me unconscious how big well yeah you
[0:49:26 - 0:49:39] ▶
you wouldn't know i'm just wondering how big of a diameter you thought that was but it
[0:49:39 - 0:49:47] ▶
it would be hard to say with yeah
[0:49:47 - 0:49:51] ▶
this i found fascinating the chair did you ever sit in the chair or just again there's
[0:49:55 - 0:50:01] ▶
kind of i squeezed into it yeah did you okay yeah and some of the films they have you just touch it and
[0:50:01 - 0:50:07] ▶
and you saw the star pattern pop up was there a screen in front of you or did you see it all around
[0:50:07 - 0:50:14] ▶
you it was all around me yeah thank you so it wasn't something that was projected it just appeared
[0:50:14 - 0:50:21] ▶
all around yeah but it was only visible while i was in the chair or next to it if i was farther
[0:50:22 - 0:50:29] ▶
away from it in any way it was just dark oh all right that's the stars just appeared or apparently
[0:50:29 - 0:50:37] ▶
they were just visible to the whoever was in the chair that's interesting
[0:50:37 - 0:50:42] ▶
movement moved the star pattern but not was there a joystick or something yeah or was it
[0:50:42 - 0:50:50] ▶
okay but not relative to each other the whole thing moved you know which was uh kind of affected
[0:50:51 - 0:50:59] ▶
my balance for a second you know because everything around me every reference point of where i was
[0:50:59 - 0:51:05] ▶
standing was moving um did you feel did you feel that was like in real time looking outside or were you
[0:51:05 - 0:51:15] ▶
did you feel like this is more of a map room no and i was in a panic i wanted out and i was just looking
[0:51:15 - 0:51:21] ▶
for a button to open a door and get me out of there yeah i'm i'm sure that's the case yeah
[0:51:21 - 0:51:26] ▶
yeah so here's the arches that you were talking about see from my point of view i was looking more to the
[0:51:31 - 0:51:38] ▶
bottom side so the top size the surface could have been but it looked like that yeah and that was
[0:51:38 - 0:51:48] ▶
giving off a light it wasn't burning me it didn't seem hot in that sense did the guys in the truck ever
[0:51:48 - 0:51:58] ▶
relate to you where it looked like the beam came from was it just the side of the ship or something
[0:51:58 - 0:52:03] ▶
they were you know pretty much saying that okay it that was also the closest point of surface next to me so
[0:52:04 - 0:52:12] ▶
if it was some kind of uh accumulated energy discharging it would just be because i was close to it
[0:52:12 - 0:52:21] ▶
now the artist put a tree there that yeah i don't give it it would have been the point of discharge
[0:52:22 - 0:52:29] ▶
the grounding effect would have gone through it i was the closest thing so before you got knocked out
[0:52:29 - 0:52:39] ▶
you're crouching behind there and you hear the thing powering up while it's powering up did you
[0:52:39 - 0:52:46] ▶
perceive or see anything was there any kind of distortion outside or any any light or glow around
[0:52:47 - 0:52:54] ▶
the ground or anything that would no just the vibration you could uh feel as much as say feel in
[0:52:54 - 0:53:02] ▶
your body the high the high high frequency that seemed to change with the position of your head
[0:53:02 - 0:53:10] ▶
and the really low rumble that you just felt in your bones more than through your ears
[0:53:11 - 0:53:15] ▶
i can imagine that must have been just frightening of something
[0:53:17 - 0:53:21] ▶
i was oh what did i do what did i do you know i'm i'm this close i was thinking it was going to shoot
[0:53:23 - 0:53:29] ▶
off before i even got close you know that was a normal thing you encounter wildlife and you jump
[0:53:29 - 0:53:35] ▶
out and it's going to be running away from you right hmm
[0:53:35 - 0:53:43] ▶
jumpsuits every they're always wearing jumpsuits yeah so did they well except in scary invading monsters
[0:53:45 - 0:53:53] ▶
movies they're always naked yeah because then you get to show you have to show the scales and the
[0:53:53 - 0:53:59] ▶
grueling monster effect yeah right uh so the eyes a lot of times and
[0:53:59 - 0:54:07] ▶
other witnesses and uh report solid black eyes yeah but these were these yeah they had pupils and i think
[0:54:09 - 0:54:18] ▶
had to do with the size of their eyes made to gather light it's extremely dim light in a low light
[0:54:18 - 0:54:28] ▶
environment but in this ambient light here would be way too bright for them a lot an eye that size
[0:54:28 - 0:54:35] ▶
so i think it was some kind of a contact lens sort of effect that may have been biologically developed
[0:54:36 - 0:54:43] ▶
to protect the eye or maybe something they they may like a insert or something sunglasses on a contact
[0:54:43 - 0:54:51] ▶
lens yeah that kind of thing was it brightly lit in this room well it it hurt my eyes to look at it
[0:54:51 - 0:54:59] ▶
but it was pretty dim okay but yeah you're looking straight back you're looking straight at the light
[0:54:59 - 0:55:06] ▶
straight up at it is that about this the right height yeah i think they were shorter than that but
[0:55:06 - 0:55:16] ▶
you know okay you got to judge the perspective of who's standing where it was shorter than four feet
[0:55:16 - 0:55:24] ▶
but no no noise never used their mouths or anything no and it didn't express emotions just just were
[0:55:26 - 0:55:34] ▶
you know afraid of you and well i have a theory about that you know that if they truly are telepathic
[0:55:34 - 0:55:41] ▶
then facial expression is obsolete they can say everything to each other without moving the
[0:55:41 - 0:55:49] ▶
muscles in their face at all do you felt that they felt your intentions um i don't know combative and
[0:55:49 - 0:55:57] ▶
they if they felt anything they felt sheer terror and panic and and uh a threat that were in response
[0:55:57 - 0:56:05] ▶
you grab the rod or whatever that was they put their hands up and they just calmly walk out and turn right
[0:56:10 - 0:56:17] ▶
and go down they didn't run like they were afraid of you they were they scurried pretty quickly oh they
[0:56:17 - 0:56:23] ▶
did okay okay again some of the other stuff i saw had them you know calmly walking out and i'm surprised
[0:56:23 - 0:56:30] ▶
they even turned their back on you with you uh no they just you know made a run for it and of course the
[0:56:30 - 0:56:39] ▶
uh physiques here male and female are quite over emphasized that's really interesting artist impression
[0:56:39 - 0:56:50] ▶
yeah but these are clearly human compared to anyone else on the kind you know interesting you got a hair
[0:56:50 - 0:56:57] ▶
length differential longer for the female that's yeah that's very earth like earth custom you know
[0:56:57 - 0:57:03] ▶
uh-huh and if they were trying to simulate something i would accept as human that would be the way they'd do
[0:57:03 - 0:57:11] ▶
it it it's interesting that they'd have two species working together that's uh well i don't know if
[0:57:11 - 0:57:18] ▶
they're working together i don't know they knew at that point my hysteria prevented telepathic control or
[0:57:18 - 0:57:27] ▶
communication and i'm not going to cooperate with them and i'm going to die if they don't get me
[0:57:27 - 0:57:32] ▶
somewhere else for further treatment so they needed something i would trust now whether this was some kind of
[0:57:34 - 0:57:42] ▶
creation uh like a mechanical device or something in a species that looks very human um
[0:57:45 - 0:57:54] ▶
uh i don't know um they sure looked like people to me when you grabbed my arm i felt like a person would who
[0:57:54 - 0:58:06] ▶
would grab grab you and i think somebody said you described these guys as really strong yeah when they
[0:58:06 - 0:58:13] ▶
held on to you yeah well i was in a weakened condition but once they got me down on the table
[0:58:13 - 0:58:18] ▶
you know i started to fight them and i was outnumbered too and whatever this device was as soon as they
[0:58:18 - 0:58:26] ▶
put that on you you were yeah you were out probably some sort of anesthetic you know no it's no hose
[0:58:26 - 0:58:32] ▶
connected to it but maybe it was generated from the part that was being held now i was describing these
[0:58:32 - 0:58:42] ▶
craft i just you know could glance over and see them whether there was where they were actually
[0:58:42 - 0:58:49] ▶
disc shaped or or made more elongated i don't know because i was very concerned with where you're taking me
[0:58:49 - 0:58:55] ▶
yeah i can't imagine the feeling of walking out there and now you're in this completely strange
[0:58:55 - 0:59:02] ▶
place there's other and he's not answering any questions yet but i was controlling that because
[0:59:02 - 0:59:09] ▶
the helmet may have been preventing him from here hearing me or speaking so these guys didn't have
[0:59:09 - 0:59:18] ▶
helmets no just this is the only guy that had yeah so so you know when they got me out of here
[0:59:18 - 0:59:25] ▶
into the room where these people were um i was renewing my efforts to get an answer
[0:59:26 - 0:59:36] ▶
no helmet uh as an excuse i need to know what are you doing to me what what is this what were those
[0:59:37 - 0:59:45] ▶
creatures and all those kind of things just babbling and getting no response just forced me down and put
[0:59:45 - 0:59:54] ▶
that over my face now probably
[0:59:54 - 0:59:57] ▶
my guess is to continue whatever
[1:00:01 - 1:00:04] ▶
medical treatments might have been underway when i regain consciousness
[1:00:06 - 1:00:10] ▶
how did you feel at this point did you feel like you were still
[1:00:11 - 1:00:14] ▶
in pain and damaged from yeah the shock the air seemed cooler and easier to breathe out there
[1:00:14 - 1:00:22] ▶
uh hmm and i was surprised that the surface you know was so easy to it wasn't slippery you know
[1:00:23 - 1:00:33] ▶
as steep as it was i could walk down it and in a weakened condition
[1:00:33 - 1:00:39] ▶
i think a close-up of one of the eyes
[1:00:39 - 1:00:50] ▶
oh so here yeah here's that room we were talking about okay so that's where the guy with the
[1:00:53 - 1:00:58] ▶
and actually the viewpoint from right here was probably black you could only see stars if you're
[1:01:01 - 1:01:11] ▶
standing over here but i don't know why i couldn't be two places at once
[1:01:11 - 1:01:15] ▶
what do we got here it says two related cases bill herman 1978
[1:01:15 - 1:01:23] ▶
jesse rosenberg 1954 i haven't heard of any of that
[1:01:25 - 1:01:29] ▶
but then you and i are not students of the uh of the genre no
[1:01:31 - 1:01:36] ▶
but that does look like yeah there are guys there
[1:01:36 - 1:01:41] ▶
oh and as do these guys oh yeah so that's these are cases reporting yeah similar things to you and
[1:01:45 - 1:01:54] ▶
uh this was after mine and this one was af before mine i wonder this looks kind of like i'm more a 1950s
[1:01:54 - 1:02:05] ▶
oh now i got it wrong this is 78 so this is this is the one that's after yours and this is from the 50s
[1:02:05 - 1:02:14] ▶
interesting case huh yeah uh like i said i haven't studied any other cases
[1:02:21 - 1:02:26] ▶
no hairstyles are interesting
[1:02:27 - 1:02:29] ▶
i don't know what else we have in here
[1:02:34 - 1:02:36] ▶
not sure what that is
[1:02:41 - 1:02:42] ▶
i'll let you push the button was it ticking i don't know no i'm kidding
[1:02:45 - 1:02:50] ▶
oh this is a simile of my badge there wow
[1:02:53 - 1:02:58] ▶
it had no other surprises in there
[1:03:01 - 1:03:04] ▶
area 52 card did you push the button no no do you want me to well we might
[1:03:06 - 1:03:14] ▶
uh-huh i'll put it closer to you yeah
[1:03:14 - 1:03:20] ▶
okay not sure what that did but hopefully nothing serious
[1:03:27 - 1:03:32] ▶
well uh interesting dossier there
[1:03:39 - 1:03:44] ▶
you know i i there's so many ufo stories and i've heard other people say that before there's uh
[1:03:45 - 1:03:53] ▶
uh so many crashes and you know you hear the detractors say you know a very valid point they
[1:03:53 - 1:04:03] ▶
travel these great distances and they come here and just crash you know left and right and how can
[1:04:03 - 1:04:08] ▶
there be so many crashes with the you know advanced technology and um
[1:04:08 - 1:04:12] ▶
um that's a good question yeah it seems um unfortunate that they aren't better drivers than that
[1:04:12 - 1:04:20] ▶
yeah if they are i mean there's there's just so so many theories so many thoughts and so much
[1:04:21 - 1:04:27] ▶
incorrect information yeah i had people recently said they they wanted to make
[1:04:27 - 1:04:33] ▶
a film or documentary on me and they said we're going to send you the script i said you have the
[1:04:35 - 1:04:40] ▶
script and you know they sent it to me and i looked through it i said that has nothing to do
[1:04:40 - 1:04:46] ▶
at all with what happened to me i said well we got it all off the internet yeah yeah well
[1:04:47 - 1:04:52] ▶
that doesn't mean it's some very creative people on the internet yeah it's uh unfortunately yeah it's
[1:04:53 - 1:05:00] ▶
a incredible amount of incorrect information but some of the theories kicked around are
[1:05:00 - 1:05:05] ▶
are fascinating you know some that say that they're not even from space or other planets
[1:05:05 - 1:05:13] ▶
they're just they're us from the future coming back to check on ourselves i've heard that theory and i
[1:05:13 - 1:05:18] ▶
i'm not going to argue about it because i'm just sticking to what i experienced right yeah
[1:05:18 - 1:05:23] ▶
you tell me yeah that's the standing i take it's uh you hear plenty of things you might be told things
[1:05:24 - 1:05:30] ▶
even from officials but you just have to stick with what you know you felt you touched you saw
[1:05:30 - 1:05:35] ▶
and draw the line there because everything else is guesswork yeah or somebody's theory or whatever
[1:05:36 - 1:05:42] ▶
it may or may not be true but i didn't personally experience it so i try to just stick to my story and
[1:05:42 - 1:05:52] ▶
not talk or study the phenomena for one thing you and i both know there's a mixture of things that are going on
[1:05:52 - 1:06:02] ▶
some of them are hardcore nuts and bolts you know it was like you and i and also other things that are
[1:06:03 - 1:06:13] ▶
uh u.s government attempts to create something right that will pass and there's also misidentified objects
[1:06:13 - 1:06:27] ▶
there's complete hallucinations and uh made-up fabrications sometimes people you know just see a
[1:06:29 - 1:06:37] ▶
a light in the distant sky and their enthusiasm and emotions embellish i guess is the word um so there's
[1:06:37 - 1:06:51] ▶
mistaken identification too i think the hardcore events are actually a small percentage i think a
[1:06:54 - 1:07:03] ▶
very small percentage because the other the others so outweigh it and it muddies the water so much maybe
[1:07:03 - 1:07:11] ▶
intentionally i wondered about that do you suppose all these stories are floating around out there just
[1:07:11 - 1:07:16] ▶
for camel's lodge oh i'm sure some are there's no there's no doubt in my mind that some are intentionally
[1:07:18 - 1:07:25] ▶
there to confuse things and and or just stories put out about witnesses or i don't know do you have a
[1:07:25 - 1:07:37] ▶
feeling about the intention of the government's position uh relative to the public you know we know that it
[1:07:37 - 1:07:47] ▶
way back used to be total denial it's all nonsense everything's made up or crazy stuff and there's no
[1:07:48 - 1:07:55] ▶
no such thing and the longer they stuck with that the more the credibility was being damaged on their
[1:07:55 - 1:08:04] ▶
part rather than on the witnesses right so they finally had to say okay let's concede something
[1:08:04 - 1:08:13] ▶
in order to re-establish our credibility so late on a friday they say here's gun camera footage from this jet
[1:08:15 - 1:08:23] ▶
this is something that has powers beyond anything we have we don't know what it is it's not ours
[1:08:23 - 1:08:33] ▶
and you know like i say late on a friday and news day news goes dead until monday monday came around and
[1:08:35 - 1:08:43] ▶
and then no reaction what wait a minute we just made this earth-sharing admission so the the government
[1:08:43 - 1:08:55] ▶
actually issued that admission quote unquote twice late on a friday gun camera footage look there is
[1:08:55 - 1:09:04] ▶
something that has maneuverability beyond anything we have it's not ours we don't think it's other
[1:09:04 - 1:09:13] ▶
countries either and uh that was they left it open though i'm just saying what they said they
[1:09:13 - 1:09:19] ▶
they just said this is something that we don't have so of course that would immediately raise the fear
[1:09:20 - 1:09:27] ▶
that what it is what if it is something possessed by other countries i personally don't believe that's
[1:09:27 - 1:09:34] ▶
the case but i don't know so it could be anything that's i think they have a long way to go
[1:09:34 - 1:09:40] ▶
to get credibility back um maybe they've made the mistake of lying for way way too long yeah and
[1:09:40 - 1:09:49] ▶
i think that started a long time ago and you know as i've said you could and others have said too
[1:09:49 - 1:09:55] ▶
it's you know if you want to keep the technology secret we all understand that's powerful technology
[1:09:57 - 1:10:03] ▶
but you don't have to keep the story secret okay we hey we found something from somewhere else
[1:10:03 - 1:10:09] ▶
they consider them themselves responsible and if there's a high tech thing that they can't
[1:10:09 - 1:10:16] ▶
uh thwart you know that's their role we're we're here to defend you against whatever might be there
[1:10:18 - 1:10:24] ▶
you would think it would create alarm i don't uh i don't think it is a threat but on the other hand
[1:10:24 - 1:10:35] ▶
the military's justification for even looking at this is is it a threat so they can study it and be
[1:10:37 - 1:10:48] ▶
involved in and all that if they if they said it wasn't then then why are they even messing with it
[1:10:48 - 1:10:54] ▶
well right so maybe that is allowed to uh languish the idea that it's a threat but i don't think it's
[1:10:54 - 1:11:05] ▶
a threat you know these reports have been around for decades even longer than that i think um a
[1:11:05 - 1:11:12] ▶
technology that advanced if they wanted to remove us and become the dominant species on this planet
[1:11:12 - 1:11:21] ▶
we'd never know what hit us they could do it overnight i i agree with you 100 there so i don't
[1:11:21 - 1:11:27] ▶
i don't see a threat to worry about uh but i also i don't think of any sinister intention on the part of
[1:11:27 - 1:11:36] ▶
the government with the position they've taken they're forced to do what they're doing well it's
[1:11:36 - 1:11:45] ▶
their job well so many people say it's our government we can tell them throw open the books and tell
[1:11:45 - 1:11:52] ▶
everybody what's going on well um we have a couple of other superpowers on the planet that might love to
[1:11:52 - 1:12:02] ▶
know what we've harvested and uh is it something that they can overcome or not and um so as long as we
[1:12:02 - 1:12:12] ▶
keep our stuff secret um they don't dare make a move could be some kind of a detente sort of balance of
[1:12:12 - 1:12:20] ▶
power thing that um we need to maintain that secrecy just for uh national security and you couldn't
[1:12:20 - 1:12:32] ▶
say well uh i'll show you mine if you show me yours because are they really giving you the full story or are
[1:12:32 - 1:12:42] ▶
they just doing uh giving you some token pieces of information to get at what you're holding you know
[1:12:42 - 1:12:52] ▶
that's what they would do yeah everybody's so it can't be done and so it's it's probably a pretty good
[1:12:52 - 1:12:58] ▶
safety chain on the whole mess to have the books slam tight a lot of people don't understand me on
[1:12:58 - 1:13:07] ▶
that and you know what you know are you taking the government side now well in this case i think
[1:13:07 - 1:13:12] ▶
their secrecy is justified and necessary
[1:13:12 - 1:13:16] ▶
yeah i still i agree with that but i think they could still just loosen their belts a little bit well
[1:13:18 - 1:13:26] ▶
and admitting that there's something which they've done and the public says well that's not enough
[1:13:26 - 1:13:32] ▶
they're saying yeah so what else is new and big deal you know we want more like free energy can't do
[1:13:32 - 1:13:39] ▶
that well you know it would destroy the monetary systems of the planet to have free energy
[1:13:39 - 1:13:54] ▶
what do you think would happen overnight if energy could be free just that well we'd have a big
[1:13:56 - 1:14:03] ▶
problem well especially if uh we'd have a big problem any big leap in technology would really collapse our
[1:14:03 - 1:14:11] ▶
economy yeah even if we could even if they didn't weaponize it which they would immediately how can we
[1:14:11 - 1:14:19] ▶
use this to defeat our enemies yeah that's going to be step one is turn it into a weapon but any advanced
[1:14:19 - 1:14:30] ▶
technology even if we could teleport from place to place or jump like these guys do great distances
[1:14:30 - 1:14:39] ▶
where you don't need cars suddenly if you don't need cars planes or the post office or anything you can
[1:14:39 - 1:14:45] ▶
get anywhere you want it to immediately nobody has a job everything's a support service for those or
[1:14:45 - 1:14:51] ▶
part of those yeah yeah same thing with energy the whole world economy yeah so i don't know what you do
[1:14:51 - 1:14:59] ▶
with really advanced technology it's too big i mean technology could be too good to release yeah i think uh
[1:14:59 - 1:15:08] ▶
the situation we're stuck with it uh people need to be far more understanding than they are to re to
[1:15:08 - 1:15:17] ▶
be granted much more than what they're getting um you know we fancy ourselves as civilized people
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you know we leave the building here we drive down the streets and everything's fine but the truth is
[1:15:27 - 1:15:32] ▶
from the aliens point of view the natives are getting restless we're a bunch of savages constantly at
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each other's throat killing each other at phenomenal rates what how many thousand this week come on you
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know they can even talk about that on tv and you know that's not incredibly alarming not anymore no
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uh now it's just something well the aliens see it all and uh not the polished uh um optimized side
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so um aside from being shot out just seeing us behaving how we behave towards each other
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i can understand perfectly why they would not come down and share advanced technology with us that would be
[1:16:21 - 1:16:28] ▶
a foolish thing to do that's like giving a three-year-old a loaded gun yeah exactly i i would i make the
[1:16:28 - 1:16:35] ▶
same move they did but it of course it makes you wonder what they're doing here is it just a is it a
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disneyland thing or you should stop by earth and check out the natives there well is there really
[1:16:42 - 1:16:48] ▶
something the europeans started exploring the world they encountered cultures that were you know
[1:16:48 - 1:16:53] ▶
basically in the stone age and the contact was very destructive they weren't ready uh for all that
[1:16:53 - 1:17:05] ▶
came with it especially not things like modern firearms and whatnot yeah advanced technology contact is
[1:17:05 - 1:17:12] ▶
always destructive it's never worked out well in history
[1:17:12 - 1:17:16] ▶
but does that mean that um we're just left to stew in our own juices i think uh the aliens have a
[1:17:16 - 1:17:29] ▶
strategy i mean this is just my own theory um they observe our behavior and uh i've made the
[1:17:29 - 1:17:39] ▶
uh advanced the theory that ufo sightings are not accidental where they're just ah humans spotted us
[1:17:39 - 1:17:50] ▶
again we're gonna have to be more careful you think they're intentional i think they're intentional
[1:17:50 - 1:17:55] ▶
you know i think they could do everything they're doing here and remain undetected but what's allowed to be
[1:17:55 - 1:18:03] ▶
seen is to as a reminder you know a hint they're just a tease yeah something things could be a lot better if it
[1:18:03 - 1:18:14] ▶
would just uh get our act together
[1:18:14 - 1:18:16] ▶
hmm that'd be great if that was that was accurate well just the awareness that there's
[1:18:19 - 1:18:26] ▶
a better way a different way a more advanced way could uh maybe inspires some leaders to
[1:18:26 - 1:18:35] ▶
want to pull us in that direction make us uh compatible with uh
[1:18:36 - 1:18:42] ▶
um more advanced societies but i think that's a bunch of savages at this point yeah that it's
[1:18:44 - 1:18:53] ▶
going to be a different set of leaders i think uh i don't think anyone's thinking along those lines
[1:18:53 - 1:18:58] ▶
at the moment anyway you're not much of a coffee drinker no i just drink a hot beverage to keep my
[1:18:59 - 1:19:09] ▶
vocal cords uh from getting hoarse did you ever drink coffee i mean when you were younger back when i was
[1:19:09 - 1:19:17] ▶
working at the paper mill uh i went graveyard shift with every third shift go to work at midnight uh
[1:19:17 - 1:19:25] ▶
coffee you gotta stay awake somehow so that was the first time i really drank coffee my mother was a
[1:19:26 - 1:19:34] ▶
coffee drinker but i never drank it till i started doing shift work and that was just to survive graveyard
[1:19:34 - 1:19:42] ▶
the midnight shift yeah i can usually have two cups on the third one i started getting shaky i'll definitely do it
[1:19:42 - 1:20:03] ▶
i try to distinguish between what happened what i can report factually accurately and just what's my own theory you know
[1:20:03 - 1:20:17] ▶
and i'm sure you don't agree with all of my theories but nobody does and uh um that's fine and dandy you know no problem
[1:20:18 - 1:20:27] ▶
i'm sure well they're they're your theories you know and i'm the same way i draw a hard line between
[1:20:27 - 1:20:35] ▶
what i know what i experienced and what i believe might be true and what i've heard from others i don't
[1:20:35 - 1:20:42] ▶
let them ever cross over it's
[1:20:42 - 1:20:45] ▶
it's really there's just so much incorrect information to dig through it would be great
[1:20:49 - 1:20:54] ▶
to know what's accurate and what's not have there been that many crashes are all those
[1:20:54 - 1:21:02] ▶
abduction stories real or or not um certainly some are the betty and barney hill story um you've probably
[1:21:03 - 1:21:14] ▶
heard yeah that and um you know i i firmly believe that occurred i firmly believe you know what happened to
[1:21:14 - 1:21:23] ▶
you occurred and um there are so many other instances it would be great to know well i had an instance
[1:21:23 - 1:21:32] ▶
that happened when i was probably first grade or you know when i was very very young
[1:21:32 - 1:21:39] ▶
that i was awakened in the middle of the night by
[1:21:42 - 1:21:44] ▶
a small being large eyes big white head really wearing a black jumpsuit but i didn't call it an
[1:21:44 - 1:21:57] ▶
alien it was just a little man this is when you're like one year old wow i never heard this my sister
[1:21:57 - 1:22:05] ▶
who's still alive remembers me insisting that this happened and she but she says no it was a dream it was
[1:22:05 - 1:22:17] ▶
a dream and so all right believe what you want i you know i've i've been alive for uh 72 years and i've
[1:22:17 - 1:22:29] ▶
never believed a dream was real um that really happened i didn't call it an alien it was just had
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little man with big bald head and bald eyes i didn't call them aliens in those days aliens were my favorite
[1:22:40 - 1:22:47] ▶
martian oh right two little antennas that would sprite from a human's head
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what do you remember from from that just some i was uh it was very hot and we had huge coolers
[1:22:52 - 1:23:03] ▶
mounted on the roof of the house blowing down through the hallway and out and that was one way to
[1:23:04 - 1:23:12] ▶
stay cool so we'd instead of sleeping in our bedrooms we'd bring bed rolls and lay in the hallway
[1:23:12 - 1:23:18] ▶
so i was awakened by something lifting my bedroll from the bottom in uh my legs were lifted into the air
[1:23:18 - 1:23:31] ▶
and uh i woke up what what is this i mean that's not a way a dream happens you know it's not a dream
[1:23:33 - 1:23:41] ▶
you know this was happening and i saw the little man that uh was lifting the bedroom and i called out
[1:23:41 - 1:23:51] ▶
and he dropped it and turned to run away and i jumped up and ran after him and um i was unable to
[1:23:52 - 1:24:02] ▶
catch up with him he disappeared in the house we had a huge house 21 rooms
[1:24:02 - 1:24:09] ▶
wow yeah it used to be the mayor of phoenix's residence but my mom was able to buy it now in its later years
[1:24:09 - 1:24:21] ▶
and uh convert the upstairs rooms into uh rooms that she rented out oh okay to pay the bills and she had
[1:24:22 - 1:24:32] ▶
an answering uh service uh downstairs to pay the bills so you lost him in the there was running
[1:24:32 - 1:24:41] ▶
amounts there was upstairs and an attic and a bottom stair and a basement and spaces under the house
[1:24:41 - 1:24:48] ▶
that us kids explored and found there were secret passages all over that house it sounds like a fun
[1:24:48 - 1:24:55] ▶
place for a kid yeah it was you know we we found all kinds of things there but the little man disappeared
[1:24:55 - 1:25:01] ▶
and i spent days trying to find out how he got away that doesn't sound like a dream to me either yeah
[1:25:01 - 1:25:07] ▶
and my uh it wasn't terribly frightening i didn't call it oh an alien was trying to get me or anything
[1:25:08 - 1:25:15] ▶
it was just this little man woke me up you know and so but my my sister doesn't believe me she thinks i
[1:25:15 - 1:25:21] ▶
had a vivid dream she she believes that i believe it but uh anyway it was wearing the black jumpsuit that
[1:25:21 - 1:25:29] ▶
betty hill described so that's uh i've never really touted that story very much because it was just me
[1:25:29 - 1:25:38] ▶
with no witnesses right and so take it or leave it i believe it but uh i don't expect anybody to
[1:25:38 - 1:25:47] ▶
believe anything that of of this nature without some sort of evidence you know yeah that other witnesses
[1:25:47 - 1:25:54] ▶
physical evidence that kind of stuff that is interesting and that most of the stories i've heard
[1:25:54 - 1:26:02] ▶
not the limited stories i've heard of people at any interaction with aliens whether it's abductions
[1:26:02 - 1:26:10] ▶
whatever it seems to be more than once they seem to come yeah at an early time in their life and then
[1:26:10 - 1:26:17] ▶
later on so i mean that's that's you've probably heard me talk about my anthill theory you know if
[1:26:17 - 1:26:22] ▶
you're walking by an anthill you don't stop say hey i think i'll stop and have a conversation with
[1:26:22 - 1:26:28] ▶
that ant right there right that was how i i viewed it before about people saying that aliens came and
[1:26:28 - 1:26:35] ▶
contacted them but now i i think that if you saw one when you were younger and one when you're older
[1:26:35 - 1:26:45] ▶
they know it's you that there's a connection between yeah there's a reason there is a reason
[1:26:45 - 1:26:51] ▶
there's a basis for that they have huge heads and a lot of intelligence and i i draw the analogy to
[1:26:51 - 1:27:03] ▶
the utah data center that's a government computer complex covering acres in utah that requires millions
[1:27:03 - 1:27:15] ▶
of gallons of water just to keep it cool and supposedly uh reportedly is recording every
[1:27:15 - 1:27:23] ▶
electronic transmission on the face of the earth now if mere humans can keep track of that much
[1:27:25 - 1:27:30] ▶
information a super advanced species can probably do it in their head but
[1:27:30 - 1:27:36] ▶
the idea that there's a connection between these events is i think quite plausible
[1:27:36 - 1:27:46] ▶
i do too and not accidental intentional for some reason no i think they once they find a person or
[1:27:49 - 1:27:58] ▶
interested in a person i think they just want to keep tabs on them and for some reason in some way
[1:27:58 - 1:28:03] ▶
and but i definitely have not tried to promote the idea that see that means i'm something special
[1:28:03 - 1:28:11] ▶
they're interested in me because i have qualities they like or something who knows what their reason
[1:28:11 - 1:28:18] ▶
might be but that's definitely not it i've never sought any notoriety i never sought out an interview or
[1:28:18 - 1:28:27] ▶
um any sort of um public appearance they always invite me i don't ever seek them so and other than that i
[1:28:27 - 1:28:42] ▶
just keep to myself so yeah you sound like me even even the book i wrote i don't even publish that i wrote a book
[1:28:42 - 1:28:51] ▶
or advertise it anywhere people find out it's there and available and they seek me out and
[1:28:51 - 1:28:57] ▶
order them but other than that my wife thinks i'm crazy come on get out there advertise it
[1:28:57 - 1:29:03] ▶
you'd sell a million of them but uh it's not you no not me but it's it's steadily keeping busy for
[1:29:04 - 1:29:13] ▶
ever the last 50 years or 40 some years well i'm glad we had time to sit down and talk yeah keep the
[1:29:13 - 1:29:24] ▶
waitress busy keeping this yeah i just wanted to let you know that it's on the house for you this
[1:29:24 - 1:29:29] ▶
afternoon oh well thank you that's great we thank you for joining the flying saucer well thank you for
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